Ep. 49 Oppenheimer

Join me and writer/producer Armando Chapman as we discuss Christopher Nolan's latest blockbuster.

Peek behind the scenes of Christopher Nolan's latest cinematic masterpiece, 'Oppenheimer'. This episode is a deep dive into this thought-provoking movie, providing you with a fresh perspective on the intricacies of this epic film's plot, characters, and the historical context. From Nolan's signature replaying of scenes to the technical achievements of the film, you'll walk away with a newfound admiration for the art of movie-making.

Imagine knowing the ins and outs of filming with IMAX or understanding the subtle, battle-worn nuances of Robert Downey Jr.'s 'Oscar scenes'. This episode goes beyond the surface, exploring the technical aspects, the challenges faced, and the incredible cast performances. Plus, we speculate on potential awards recognition for the cast and discuss the historical implications of the story. 

Fasten your seat belts as we journey back to World War II - a time of immense pressure, life-altering decisions, and the creation of the atomic bomb. We'll explore the monumental task of assembling a team of scientists for this covert operation and the legacy left behind by Oppenheimer. This episode is sure to offer a captivating take on one of history's most pivotal moments - be prepared to see 'Oppenheimer' in a whole new light.

Transcript

Armando: 0:14

The G plugins are up. Oh, I mean no, I'm just going to be smoking a little during our oh, like we had to yesterday, I mean I had.

Vito: 0:34

Yeah, I'm glad we smoked before the movie. We get to see it on IMAX.

Armando: 0:38

Yeah, although I don't think that was, I feel like we saw Aren't there we didn't see a 70 millimeter. That's what I mean.

Vito: 0:45

Yeah, but we saw an IMAX. What's the difference? Well, we didn't. We didn't get like an actual film print.

Armando: 0:52

Oh, ok, yeah, Because, and I feel like we got- the big screen.

Vito: 0:55

We got the big IMAX screen, but I don't believe it and that film.

Armando: 0:59

I feel like that screen wasn't that big. Isn't there like a?

Vito: 1:02

really In other words?

Armando: 1:03

in other words, if we had gotten the IMAX film copy, why are they were showing now?

Vito: 1:08

I didn't think it was that much different than Senorama's.

Armando: 1:12

IMAX Shit. You know what? That was the first time I've been to an IMAX theater, and God knows how long. Even the theater itself.

Vito: 1:18

Yeah, yeah, but the sound was great, though. That's what I know. Yeah, yeah, the sound was really good.

Armando: 1:24

You could hear that shit in your soul, yeah, yeah, every rumble in your fucking bones.

Vito: 1:29

And it would cut to it so hard too. You know, you just sit there and it's just like brrr.

Armando: 1:34

Oh yeah, like you're, like you're one minute having a nice. There's a nice polite conversation between some you know cameo big name actor that goes you out of it, and then also.

Vito: 1:45

Yeah, like it would cut cameo. Loud sounds, you know cameo loud sound.

Armando: 1:50

Cameo loud sound, long speech cameo loud sound.

Vito: 1:53

You know it was yeah.

Armando: 1:56

So we'll so Any fucking cameos yeah.

Vito: 1:58

That that cast was ginormous.

Armando: 2:01

So I know it's OK.

Vito: 2:02

So the reviews are all great. For this, though, oppenheimer reviews are amazing, most people. I mean, we're not going to really spoil anything. I mean, no, I don't, everyone knows the story. I mean there's like we said, there's one little tiny, christopher Nolan.

Armando: 2:18

And it's more of a, it's more of a Christopher Nolan signature move that he does in every film, that when he executes it in this film, I don't think it gave the emotional like yeah, impact that other gimmicks that he uses, that are, I mean, they're totally Nolan, you know they're like. Basically, what we're talking about is when he'll he'll show a sequence of something, he'll show some kind of interaction between his characters, but he'll show it from this one specific angle at the beginning, and he wants the audience to focus on something. And then by the end and throughout the movie you'll start to see that same scene replayed, but from the other angles, and it finally reveals what he didn't want you to know from the first angle. And so you know he did that with inception, like with the totem, you know like those sequences yeah.

Armando: 3:13

Yeah, you know, and it works. Like I'm not here to say it doesn't work. You know, or at least that it I'm not here to say it hasn't worked in his other movies, this one though.

Armando: 3:22

it just was nothing special, but you could tell it's what he was trying out. For him he was. This was his like flourish. Basically, what happens is at one point in the movie, early on, oppenheimer. J Robert Oppenheimer is, you know, brought on to the Manhattan Project I think it's where he's at, or somewhere, some other research center, maybe slightly before that. And so wherever they are, it's like a major institute for, you know, nuclear physicists and their researchers. And so J Robert Oppenheimer is seen through the eyes of Robert Donnie Jr's character, who I forget his name at the moment. I'll look it up.

Vito: 3:58

Yeah, he was one of the politicians, right.

Armando: 4:01

Yeah.

Vito: 4:02

I don't think he was a politician. Also, he was admirable. He was, he was yeah, he was admirable or something.

Armando: 4:06

Yeah he was. He was a military guy.

Vito: 4:08

Yes, that's right.

Armando: 4:10

The last third of the movie is is is RDJ's. You know they basically gave RDJ the Oscar right for the last third of the movie.

Vito: 4:17

Right, there's like three sections to this movie and I need really three acts. It's like three sections. You know, yeah, from you know, you have the Robert Donnie Jr in quest and then the the third part, right, the third part. But and then the Silia Murphy kind of has a back and forth where he's being interrogated and is bouncing around, but you literally have his, whatever his relationships, and then you have him as like a yeah, you have like.

Armando: 4:46

We all do that too. You know we all have that where it's like this is our personal life and this is our work life. And so for Oppenheimer, he's depicted as a woman. I mean, flat out, people are, people address him or call him and and deride him as being a womanizer, and you know just kind of.

Vito: 5:03

So let's start with that then. So when you go into his beginning of his life, he's at a, at a communist meeting, and he that's a big part of all of this, it is a big part of all of it. And he meets Florence Pugh there and they begin a romance.

Armando: 5:19

Yeah, her name is like Tatlok, I think OK yeah, I forget a lot of the names.

Vito: 5:23

That's why it was the one thing I wanted to say and I'll let you go into her Is it's it's. It's hard for me to remember stuff, because the one thing about this movie and I was so ready for it because the no CGI and everything but which that blew me away.

Vito: 5:37

But it was amazing and it was such like a technical achievement. But in the same token it was a little underwhelming which will get into the actual, you know the bomb itself. But like it just didn't stay in my brain when I left the theater I didn't have like that lasting impression where it was. You know, you see a great movie, like you're in bed, you're still thinking about it and everything. You're like oh, I didn't have that. I was like fuck, I was shocked. So yeah, same here.

Armando: 6:02

Yeah, like it was obviously extremely well made movie.

Vito: 6:06

Yeah, yeah, definitely worth the time.

Armando: 6:08

Yeah, most of it, definitely worth the time, definitely worth the trip to the theater. I'll say yeah and I think, I think a lot of people are almost like two thirds worth your time.

Vito: 6:19

Yeah, well, you know the whole thing was good.

Armando: 6:22

I wanted to see the bomb and and and how they depicted it, and and, but yeah for me. I kind of I got a gun that I wanted to make sure to discuss was that? Ok, let's talk about the cameos for a second right.

Vito: 6:35

So first I want to go into, like, the beginning of it. Let's go to the story, though, and talk about, you know, when he meets Florence Pugh and everything at the meeting.

Armando: 6:42

Well, so throughout this movie, even from the beginning with the communist meetings right, and even then moving through the middle part where he's, you know, heading the Manhattan Project bomb goes off, and then it's the inquest afterward with our DJ, throughout these three sections you've got Josh Hartnett making an appearance as as an Admiral as like one of my him. I liked him too. But I'm sorry, but it was like holy shit is that, josh? You know it was. It was that.

Vito: 7:09

It was very like okay, then that's the first thing you looked right over. Like is that heart yeah?

Armando: 7:14

Then Rami Malek at one point, who, I'm sorry he just one best actor like two or three years ago. He has like 10 minutes in supporting small as little role Florence Pugh herself, florence Pugh, who is hot, hot, hot right now in this moment she is is one of the hottest, most you know in demand young actresses out there right now she's got.

Armando: 7:37

I don't want to call it a cameo, but it really is. You know, the women in this movie don't really have very much written for them or much to do, and you're right, You're right.

Vito: 7:47

My opinion.

Armando: 7:48

Florence Pugh's character. I mean, aside from the, the tits and ass, which were great Good job.

Vito: 7:54

Not as much as they were pubbing, though they were making it sound like. If you think you're going to go in and see some like intense sex scenes that are like you know haven't done it like 20 years yeah. It's nothing like that.

Armando: 8:05

They're just just basically naked, like postcoital, basically postcoital.

Vito: 8:09

Yeah, and but even like their sex scenes were just very close up of them like kind of rotting on each other and some little nipple when they said you know, it's yeah.

Armando: 8:16

No, and it made me wonder. I guess because she I in thinking back about it, I was wondering like, well, what's the point of having her in the story other than to literally bring tits and ass you?

Vito: 8:29

know well the ending of her character. I think there is trying to show like how we talk about you talk about. A lot too is sometimes somebody could have such an important life, they're so, they've done so much in her life, but at home they're really not that good of parents or they're not a good husband yeah.

Armando: 8:46

You know, I know about that, no, but I think that in terms of for the movie, her character, I think or I felt her character was sort of there to add to the negative and and like the unsavory parts of Oppenheimer's life outside of his work. Because not only does she, I think, you know, I think in the movie she's so, she's the one that takes your clothes off, she's the one having sex in the movie. There's, you know, in the movie, it's just that's the only thing like sexy in it. But I think it's because she was, I guess her character was a big commune, it was like really big involved in the party, and so for him to have that torrid affair with her it was more than just, you know, having the affair. It was also sort of like further tainting Oppenheimer's image as as being tied to, you know, communism.

Armando: 9:33

Communism during the Red Scare, I mean during the height of the, the, what's it called? What was his name? The McCarthy here, mccarthy, yeah, and so her character really just sort of mires him in that and doesn't really she doesn't, at least I don't remember her being having anything to do in the movie that that didn't have to do directly with Oppenheimer, like I didn't see her doing anything but fuck him basically.

Vito: 9:59

I don't know if they were trying to make it like she was some type of a muse for him, but I didn't get that at all Actually at all.

Armando: 10:06

You know it was like they were together for a minute, and that was it. It just felt like I don't know. I just felt like she was there to provide TNA, you know, to provide a TNA moment and that's fine you know, I just said. I would have rather it served a little bit better in the movie. I don't know.

Vito: 10:21

I would have to. I would have to, you know.

Armando: 10:23

I mean.

Vito: 10:24

Emily Blunt was great.

Armando: 10:25

I mean she almost wasn't great, she almost wasn't, she almost wasn't, she was by the end.

Vito: 10:30

She really has a good art yeah.

Armando: 10:31

She's like the and that's actually what her parents to. I think that like that, actually you step back and look at the whole thing. It makes it such, it makes Emily Blunt's presence and performance such a great performance because she starts out as like basically the wet blanket. She's permanent, she's the perma wet blanket, you know. She's the one that tells Oppenheimer whenever you know he's going too far. She's the one who registers the concern and the fear and the hesitation about what he's doing with his work. Why are they there in?

Vito: 11:04

those hours and she's almost an equal of his Like. They're both really bad parents. Remember they have a kid and they're like take our child please.

Armando: 11:12

Like, take them, take them. I almost feel like for the audience. She's also meant to be that like wet blanket. You know she's meant to be that sort of like reality check, you know, I think. And so throughout the movie you just kind of like the disapproving wife until at the end when her disapprovement of Josh Safdie's character he tries to shake her hand and I kind of feel like that moment was the was the third like bomb going on.

Armando: 11:43

In other words, that was the metaphoric, that was the acting version of another nuclear bomb going off in the third act, because they really swelled the music up in that moment when she stopped him.

Vito: 11:54

Oh yeah, yeah, that was a little climax.

Armando: 11:56

Yeah, that was like an emotion.

Vito: 11:58

She always didn't like that. He didn't have any balls, that was. She bitched about him the whole time and he was always shaking in his hand, no matter what. He just let them beat on him. So she was the only like. That was the only moment where they even she stood up for him a little bit. But I'm glad you brought up the staff. Is it Josh Safdie who plays that German character?

Armando: 12:15

Is that what he was? I thought he was like, maybe not Israeli.

Vito: 12:19

I don't like German Jewish, I guess you know I thought it was German, I couldn't tell it was that kind of turned me off pretty quickly. That was a little. Yeah was bad.

Armando: 12:28

Terrible. He was terrible in this movie. His eyelashes have to go. I'm sorry.

Vito: 12:36

I know he's talking. It is like I think they have to do it like this. I'm like what the fuck?

Armando: 12:41

It was so phony. Whatever accent he was doing, I don't even. That's why I'm like wait wasn't. He might have been Israeli, or he might have been not.

Vito: 12:49

Maybe I'm wrong, yeah, I know.

Armando: 12:50

But he's probably German, though, but, and it was terrible, his was so one note, and it was like he was trying to. It was like he was trying to do an impression of somebody, like he was trying to make a pejorative impression of a German person's accent or something it was.

Vito: 13:05

I know, I don't know.

Armando: 13:06

I know it's stupid and I hate those people who were like, oh, I hated her makeup or like you know. In other words, like they noticed, this is superficial stuff.

Vito: 13:14

Yeah, yeah.

Armando: 13:15

But I'm about to be that person. I cannot take Josh Safdie's eyelashes. They're too much. If they're his natural eyelashes, he must have them trimmed and re and scale. Like, in other words, like you know, like you get hair growing somewhere, you don't want it, you got to pluck it. Like his eyelashes are too much they. It looks like he has eyeliner on, and let me if he has, if he actually has eyeliner on, so help me, god, I'm going to reach in.

Vito: 13:43

No. I, it was so I thought he didn't ever ask you.

Armando: 13:46

I was like it was so distracting him and his presence. But I think for me it's because his, his sort of cameonist like his, his, how he didn't fit in the scene, in my opinion. You know, he didn't fit the time period. He just didn't carry himself like he would really was, you know, there in the 40s testing this bomb. It just didn't feel right from him. But then it made me notice that like, oh yeah, but then Josh Hartnett's in this, and so is Rami Malek, and so is what's his face?

Vito: 14:16

Gary Oldman pops in as as true man, as true man.

Armando: 14:20

You know I mean how many cameos of major. I think that was a misstep for Nolan.

Vito: 14:25

Really I think it was a mistake. Here's one casting. I liked that, what I had to go home and check one thing I saw one person. I was like I think I know who that is, so one of the lawyers for Robert Downey Jr. The one guy who didn't have many lines but his name was Scott Grimes. I was like I think I got Scott Grimes and he's basically the little kid actor from Critters. I don't know if you ever see Critters.

Vito: 14:52

So I was like I would have to make sure that was Scott Grimes and it was. I was like, oh shit, scott Grimes and Casey Affleck's in it.

Armando: 14:58

Casey, oh, okay, come on. Okay, so we also have this. Not forget Ben Affleck.

Vito: 15:02

They went for the Boston boys.

Armando: 15:04

Not Ben Affleck, sorry. Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jr. Obviously Emily Blunt. These are all people who could open their own movie. In other words, these are the people that are cameos in here. For the most part are all people who have opened like franchise, tentpole movies as lead, as leads, and they're these tiny little cameos. I think it was a big, big mistake to do so many of them. I think he should have gone with a few. Kenneth Brown oh my God, kenneth.

Armando: 15:31

Brown pops in and I'm just looking at the IMG and I get it and I get it.

Vito: 15:36

You want to do that big no, what's that?

Armando: 15:38

David Krummeltz David. Krummeltz is in every movie or TV show of our childhood.

Vito: 15:44

Yeah, I like that you grew up with him.

Armando: 15:46

If you don't know who that is, come on and so you see him and you're just like, well, that's the kid from Adam's family, you know yeah.

Vito: 15:53

Josh Hartnett yeah, yeah, yeah.

Armando: 15:56

It's too distracting, it's too Well. No, they're trying to.

Vito: 15:59

Yeah, I didn't get it. They're trying to do that big epic ensemble. Everybody's a giant star, even if you have one line. It's just like I don't know, it was a bit much for this, josh.

Armando: 16:10

Peck, that was the other one, josh.

Vito: 16:12

Sorry anyway, but anyway yeah, I mean the cast is huge and it is distracting at times. I mean we could sit here and talk the whole time about just the cast. But like so the movie itself. You know it jumps around in time, you know there's a lot of hearings going on and you're basically jumping on flashbacks of a couple different hearings and and the beginning half of the movie. Basically, I kind of look at the movie split in the middle, the moment the bomb goes off, when they actually test the bomb, and that's the only time you actually see the explosion. Is the actual bomb itself going off? Is the test? Is the test site?

Armando: 16:45

Trinity test. I think it's.

Vito: 16:46

Trinity test Correct and you never see, you know, Hiroshima or Nagasaki or any of that stuff, unfortunately. I wish I thought they were going to like show it, but they didn't.

Armando: 16:55

I was like, ah, they should you know, I get it. You know they showed like burnt, like nuclear fallout victims. You know they showed like, yeah, yeah, I just get the instillimitation, though, of being too practical is you can't.

Vito: 17:08

So I loved it kept flashing these hard sound effects and like in visuals all throughout, as he's getting the idea of the bomb when you're, when you're showing like the atoms and all the flames, all these particles moving, it was amazing how they would shoot that and I was like, oh, this is fucking cool. So I'm getting all geared up and then we're doing the countdown for the bomb. It was just all of it was just spot on, super intense. You felt it in the theater and it was. It was a little bit of a letdown when the actual bomb itself went off, like you know.

Vito: 17:37

I get the silence that they try to do and everything, but, like you, didn't get to see an actual, you know, atomic bomb go off. You didn't get to see it it was all close ups and stuff Cause it could be.

Armando: 17:47

Yeah, it was all close ups and the actors yeah, it's all reactions of the actors that are being blinded by the lights, and they had this the little like sunglasses on, you know, and yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, no, it definitely. I'll be honest, I feel like the posters and the advertisements were much more thrilling.

Vito: 18:06

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Armando: 18:08

They. They took out a real must have been really expensive If you're from LA, if you ever drive down, I guess, up La Cienega, where La Cienega meets Jefferson and splits off onto Fairfax. Right there where La Cienega splits to Fairfax, about two years ago I want to say they took Oppenheimer, took out a huge one of those billboards that you can like put like bespoke parts to it. You know like when, somehow. You know like when a billboard is not just like oh, it's a flat piece of plastic that's covering the billboard, it's like you know you can see pieces coming off of it or it's pretty or it has something in it.

Armando: 18:43

So at I don't know if it's still there at La Cienega and Fairfax, there was this big, huge billboard and it had a big, huge one of those countdown clocks to a countdown to July 21st 2023, when Oppenheimer was coming out, and it had this big fire explosion graphics behind it, and I mean, I drove by that shit every fucking day for a year, so I guess. So then let me ask you so was your issue with, like, how the bomb went off and then they had this other massive hearing afterward, or like, what would you, what would? How would you have wanted it to to? What would like? What would you just want to do to see it done that would make it sound better or make it come off?

Vito: 19:23

Well, I wish they would have shown because they kept flashing to him being in the plane and everything. I wish they would have shown the Enola Gay the whole moment when the guys in the plane dropping they're actually doing the bomb, I think.

Armando: 19:36

I get it. I thought the exact same thing, yeah, and now.

Vito: 19:39

I get it out of respect, you know, to Japan.

Armando: 19:41

Well, did they not want to be in it, or what?

Vito: 19:42

Well, I think they just didn't want to show the war part of it. You know they don't want to show the destruction that it did. I get that, I totally get it. But there was a lot of like just intensity just in that plane trip alone, like they could have shot it in a way where you don't show the destruction. You could have seen that the beam of light from the plane I don't know you could have. They should have shown that. I thought I just felt like they were building up to so much. We got the you know the test and it would look great Like they did do an amazing job. For practical effects. It was amazing what they did.

Armando: 20:15

I'm sorry. I have a hard time believing that they didn't use any CGI, really.

Vito: 20:19

Like who knows, you're right, maybe they like what, but they certainly were jerking themselves off about it Like we don't know.

Armando: 20:25

Cgi, I feel like there's probably caveats to that, like I bet they're probably. You know, I feel like if they were to put that in print, it would have an asterisk. That said, except for when we did the graphics of all of the bomb and all of this and all of that Like, isn't that considered CG? In other words, did Nolan execute a big fire, fiery explosion, and record it?

Vito: 20:47

Yeah, that's I'm assuming. So, yeah, absolutely Okay.

Armando: 20:50

Well, yeah, I mean maybe that's why maybe it needed some CGI.

Vito: 20:55

That's what I'm saying I remember watching my favorite atomic bomb and I, for some reason, I love bombs and movies.

Armando: 21:02

Like that should be the name of like a rock band. There's my favorite atomic bomb, my favorite atomic bomb yeah.

Vito: 21:10

Your neighbor could be in it. Exactly, I remember Twin Peaks to Return when they did their atomic bomb episode. It was so good and I was like you know, but it was when it was just a minute. I loved how they did it. It was one of the great episodes in TV history. But like I thought like okay, christopher Nolan doing an atomic bomb is gonna fucking be insane, like I was ready and again I get it. So, anyways, my take on the movie was I loved it. And then when the last third I know is about Robert Downey Jr, but besides just about him, it just dragged on and on and I was like this is longer than three hours. I was like this is this is a lot longer than three hours. I'm like this is going for a while.

Armando: 21:56

So you know that actually is a good segue to a couple trivia bits that I caught here. So first you should know it says this is Christopher Nolan's longest running film, at 180 minutes. This is longest film. No wonder you were like this shit is not ending.

Vito: 22:13

Well it's, that's three hours then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought it was longer actually than that.

Armando: 22:18

I think probably because we sat through a fucking 30 minutes of commercials and trailers like oh yeah, that was a little bit much so here's a.

Armando: 22:25

Here's a couple more things that I thought were really interesting, and this is kind of be kind of nerdy maybe, but in order for the okay. So the last third of the movie, without giving anything away really, but the last third of the movie, he is actually filmed in black and white. It's all black and he didn't. He didn't make it black and white in post, I guess. In order to film the black and white sections of the movie to be shot in the same quality as the rest of the film, kodak developed the first ever black and white film stock for IMAX format.

Vito: 22:56

Oh wow, that's cool. Yeah, it says um yeah, the whole Robert Downey Jr stuff was all black and white.

Armando: 23:02

Yeah, but it was black and white film, like cellulite film in that huge. Here's another bit of first ever IMAX film, partially shot in 65 millimeter black and white cellulite first ever, this one I love. During an interview with reporter on CBS Sunday morning, nolan pointed out that the entire reel of IMAX film stock used for the production is 11 miles long and weighs 600 pounds.

Armando: 23:30

Oh, I did hear that yeah and then, oh yeah, this is interesting because of the size of the IMAX 15 perf 70 film and the speed at which it's pulled through the camera, it's nearly impossible to record on set sound with that camera running. This is why most dialogue scenes are shot in the movie on five perf 70 millimeter format rather than the full frame IMAX. So in other words, the camera itself was worse, so loud that you can't really. You know film good audio. You know that's crazy.

Vito: 24:04

Yeah, remember he did. Yeah, he did Batman or Dark Knight. He went back and forth on IMAX and then a film camera.

Armando: 24:12

Yeah, oh yeah yeah, using different, different footage within one film.

Vito: 24:16

But that's, that's, that's awesome. I mean, yeah, he certainly went the best. But yeah and he's, I mean God damn like, and Sylvia Murphy I hope I say his name right, god damn.

Armando: 24:27

I think it's Killian.

Vito: 24:29

Is it I?

Armando: 24:29

could be wrong. I think that's whatever people say, killian.

Vito: 24:31

I've heard him both you know it's interesting Actually he's very good. He's very good, I mean I. I mean, yeah, you know, he really does bring it as, as you know this is his first time as a he's he's worked with Well kind of I mean 28 days later.

Armando: 24:48

No, that was, that was Danny Boyle.

Vito: 24:50

No no, no, no, he was the lead.

Armando: 24:51

No, no, I mean, this is the first time he's been a lead for Christopher.

Vito: 24:55

Nolan, oh yeah.

Armando: 24:56

Yeah For Nolan. This is like his fourth or fifth Nolan movie. But he's always been like a side character. You know, this is his first lead with him. I thought, you know, I thought he was good, I, I am.

Vito: 25:07

Okay, I actually did think he was I mean. I thought he was worth the Oscar buzz that, I think he was service, I would say serviceable.

Armando: 25:14

I think the job was serviceable because I think that he I don't know, like he didn't, he didn't blow me away. I was actually quite caught off guard by Josh Hartnett to be honest. I thought Josh Hartnett was pretty good.

Vito: 25:27

He was good and I was surprised.

Armando: 25:30

I was surprised how good he was, you know.

Vito: 25:32

I like Jason Clark too.

Armando: 25:34

I think he's good, you know what. So Jason Clark plays the like Senator.

Vito: 25:38

Rod.

Armando: 25:39

So he plays the guy who's basically grilling RDJ at in the last third right.

Vito: 25:45

No, no, he's when it's interrogating Oppenheimer.

Armando: 25:48

Oh the.

Vito: 25:48

Robert Downey juniors up against the whole entire, like Senate or whatever.

Armando: 25:52

Senate panel.

Vito: 25:52

And then when Oppenheimer is sitting there in that one little room, he's the one heading up that investigation.

Armando: 25:57

Yeah, but let's so. Let's talk about Robert Downey juniors. It's sort of the coda of the film.

Vito: 26:02

Yeah, it is. It's a good way of calling it that. Yeah, because he.

Armando: 26:05

So, like I was saying, you know, this movie was shot in his character, you know.

Vito: 26:10

Oh yeah, sorry, go ahead.

Armando: 26:11

Oh no, I was just saying. You know, this movie was shot in celluloid, which I think is special to call out just because.

Vito: 26:17

No, of course Awesome.

Armando: 26:18

Yeah, if you, if you know anybody that's a filmmaker, you'll tell you that like it's a different vibe when you're shooting, when you know that the movie's being shot on celluloid. It's kind of like a okay like a little more Actors like more Actors like him more. But yeah, it's, yes, it's a little more like take it seriously. Let's try not to fuck it up, because we're actually doing limited stock of film digital.

Armando: 26:41

It's not, as you know, and it's not to say it's not. People don't give their best for digital, but you know what I mean.

Vito: 26:46

It's just different. It's a I've always said.

Armando: 26:50

Yeah, so this guy's got this brand new black and white footage or a stock stock film that has never is created for him for this, you know. So that's, I would think that's a lot of pressure, if you know, if you're the actor knowing that, and so our DJ gets this really big chunk of the movie at the end to you know, sort of really show his it was, it was his like a few good men moment, you know. I want the truth you can't have right. It was that it was definitely the Oscar scene.

Armando: 27:21

Yeah, and I think that it didn't do our DJ any good. I don't think it helped him, I think he was. I think he reached him at a certain point. Of course, that's just my opinion. I think he finally reached him and yeah chewing the scenery and then the whole thing I. That's where we go back to the Nolan device of showing the audience again the same sequence of something, but from a different angle.

Vito: 27:50

Yeah.

Armando: 27:50

So you're finally revealed to the audience what happened, what the exchange was, because what, basically, I don't think we mentioned. So basically, at the beginning of the movie, oppenheimer goes to this Institute. He goes outside to go see Einstein is like throwing rocks in the in the palm, he's like skipping stones in the pond or something, and Oppenheimer goes up to him but we have no audio, we can't hear anything.

Vito: 28:12

We're like yeah, Robert Downey Jr is walking to them from a distance.

Armando: 28:16

Robert Downey Jr. Yeah, we're basically in his point of view and there's no audio from the two men. And then all of a. So he's walking toward the two of them at the edge of this little pond and all of a sudden Einstein, basically, you know, like Chuck's deuces and just starts walking away. And again, this is at the beginning. We don't know, we don't know what he said to Oppenheimer. And then, as he is walking towards the camera and it's all slow mode at this point, robert Downey Jr is on his way to try to go talk to both of them and Einstein starts walking away and he walks past Robert Downey Jr and snubs him and he kind of like he snubs him, he doesn't say anything to him turns his nose up.

Vito: 28:57

I'm a stink guy.

Armando: 28:59

I'm a stink guy. That's at the beginning of the movie. They show us that sequence. So at the end in the coda, we start to see as Robert Downey Jr is chewing his scenery. We start to see the reverse of that moment and we hear finally you know what Einstein says to Oppenheimer about. You know basically cautioning him about what he's doing.

Vito: 29:20

Yeah, but that's the whole twist. So he won't give that one away, I guess.

Armando: 29:24

Yeah, that went out.

Vito: 29:25

Yeah, there's nothing to it, but again, that's the thing. It's like a build up and you're like, okay, here is this, is it? But it's kind of like okay, that's kind of cool. But it's what you expect, you know it was like nothing, yeah, no nothing mind blowing.

Armando: 29:40

Yeah, it was nothing like. Oh, he gave Oppenheimer the formula or something. Yeah, I don't know, it wasn't like something huge.

Vito: 29:48

You know, it wasn't like nothing huge it wasn't like he gave him.

Armando: 29:51

So yeah, it was just sort of the reflective moment, and then it did sort of explain why why Einstein would snub. I think his name is Strauss Robert Johnny Jr's character, and so it's like oh okay, great, now we know why Einstein didn't like him.

Vito: 30:08

Right.

Armando: 30:09

Okay, like now. What yeah I?

Vito: 30:10

don't know. Yeah, I didn't do anything to the movie or the story. Yeah, the story or anything.

Armando: 30:16

I remember when we were there, there were more people there for Barbie for sure.

Vito: 30:20

I think so. Yeah, there was a lot of girls there. I was like, oh man, we should have gone to see the Klaus Barbie movie. We know what you think, yeah, it was, there were so many people there for Barbie as well. There was a lot for Oppenheimer. But you're right, barbie definitely is getting a little more of the yeah well.

Armando: 30:38

I think what I know, about this double feature though.

Armando: 30:40

I think what's surprising is that they're both getting awards talk, and I don't mean because Oppenheimer, I mean that they're both like. In other words, I think it's. It's a weird juxtaposition, obviously, but I don't know if the juxtaposition means that they both are being considered on that awards level. I think it's because the people who made Barbie are the awards darling People right now that know a bomb Bach and Greta Gerwig, which I'm not saying a single thing about them. I'm not going to say my opinion about them because I don't want to say it, say it.

Armando: 31:19

No, actually I want to. Actually I wouldn't mind seeing Barclas Barbie. Of course I've been always calling it Clas Barbie. I'm not always caught the Clas Barbie movie because I think that's hilarious. Sorry to do that joke, but Oppenheimer was a full, full ish house and I think it's definitely worth seeing for the sound and the elements that really like kind of rock your seat. You know it's yeah.

Vito: 31:42

I know it definitely did that. You know what Mark Bressinger is texting me saying. You know what a good double feature would be Oppenheimer and Godzilla, king of the Monsters.

Armando: 31:52

But Japanese one or does the American one? Well, it's the American one.

Vito: 31:57

Yeah, because, member, back when they did Godzilla, yeah, right after it they did an American version which is a recut footage of the original, but they just added Raven Perrin.

Armando: 32:10

Oh man, yeah, no, I think it's. It's pretty interesting, though, that I definitely Robert Downey Jr will probably be nominated for an offer supporting actor Oscar.

Vito: 32:18

I think they're all going to get their Oscar knobs. I think, I think.

Armando: 32:22

I kill you and kill you and he should.

Armando: 32:25

Yeah, and I also think that Emily Blunt could score her first nomination because one of the things that she really she really kind of brings it home or kind of closes out the emotional arc of the movie by snubbing, you know, josh Safdie's character at the end, yeah, and, like I said, you know they make a huge moment out of it with the music and the camera work. So you know, I think that she had to play the prickly constantly like or long suffering wife, you know, which can sometimes drink an hour flask.

Armando: 32:59

Right, it can be like a trope that you know you can, that an actress can fall into and it not really yield anything for her, but I think she really got this one. I think she really was. I think she was also given a good role with that. You know, I don't see Florence Pugh in the words talk only because I think her role was too small, you know.

Vito: 33:19

Yeah, but yeah, you know, I think it wasn't significant enough to the story because, in the end, I don't really care about his personal life? Not Exactly.

Armando: 33:30

Well, here's the thing. Let's just putting on our like the awards, you know prognosticating hat. If they're going to nominate somebody, an actress from that movie, it would be from this movie. It would be Emily Blunt not. But she would not. It would not be for a leading actress. Correct Domination, because there was no lead actress in this movie. Both Emily Blunt and Florence Pugh's characters existed in a supporting capacity.

Armando: 33:57

They all support, I mean even at Damon, they're not going to nominate Florence Pugh without nominating Emily Blunt, and they usually don't nominate more than one support. It has happened, you know, but it's usually that they don't yeah, they don't nominate two supporting characters in the same category. It does. It has happened.

Vito: 34:14

Yeah, it depends on the competition.

Armando: 34:16

I don't think it'll happen with this one, though I think Florence Pugh has a better chance with some of the other stuff she's got coming out, but yeah, overall, I think it was really good.

Vito: 34:24

Like I said, I was a four out of five.

Armando: 34:27

I would give it a four out of five. I would definitely give it a five.

Vito: 34:30

But, with that being said, I did fell a little, I don't want to say underwhelmed, like you said.

Armando: 34:37

Just well, I was well, I was well, not underwhelmed. I was not overwhelmed, I was definitely. Well, yeah, that's how I left it.

Vito: 34:46

I felt like I was like and like. I said when I got home, I would you know we went back to your house and watched Project Greenlight. I was thinking about that on the drive home more than I was about I knew it, I know, man.

Armando: 34:59

I told you that's the next we should do, the next we got to do, gray matter oh no, oh God I don't want to watch gray matter I will have to fight through it.

Armando: 35:08

We'll have to hate watch gray matter. No, I told you that, listen, I would, and I would like. I said I was hesitant to like to like stump for that just because I know it has had no, the reputation Roger Greenlight has, which is not, you know, very like it's. It's kind of exploitative, but it isn't never. The movie is never good. They never have made a good movie out of it.

Vito: 35:32

It's all we talked about A feast was the only time that, like they ever was, like someone seemed satisfied by a screening, that that was the only season.

Armando: 35:40

Yeah. So I think I think, if you had that in your mind more on the way home, in other words, you know, drive home, you were, you know, recalling, because I thought that was. I thought the show was really good as far as how it showed, you know, the open conflict between the two productions and sort of all the, the, the BTS stuff, yeah, and again it keeps going to like this, when I'm always making to about, it's great to see like every too many people involved something.

Vito: 36:06

it just doesn't move forward. You know it's like that's why good ideas always get dumbed down because everybody in a room has to be satisfied with an idea. So you could have this great idea by the time you leave a room. It's just been dumbed down because everyone has to be satisfied.

Armando: 36:21

It's death by committee.

Vito: 36:23

You know, it's death.

Armando: 36:24

OK, who do we vote? Ok, dad.

Vito: 36:26

Oh, we've been to that one pretty easily, though I was laughing my fucking ass off.

Armando: 36:30

Yeah, it was good, it was bingeable. So I you know, hats off to Issa Rae on that one. Oh my God, we're going to get canceled for the hate we've got for that director, that they really made us hate that director.

Vito: 36:40

Oh yeah, that's why I liked it, though, because I was afraid they were going to be all you know, play nice about it. But I was like no, they kind of you know, went for an ejacular on that.

Armando: 36:50

I was surprised, I was I was surprised how real even Issa Rae kept it. Not surprised, but yeah, I was surprised that they were like no, she's fucking up, Like they were, you know they were like this ain't cool. This is not working.

Vito: 37:05

They try to stay face at the end, like I was telling you that. They're like no, she's a really good director, it's just a script. And I'm like, hmm, who are the fucking idiots then? Who approved this script? Where did this come from? I know which would be the whole episode, because that's all we would talk about from the very beginning was like why are they doing this script? All they're doing is complaining about it. No one's like in sync with it and it's just like what the fuck? I don't know?

Armando: 37:28

Yeah, it's. That was probably the biggest poll in the series was the script's origin. You know the script's provenance, I guess you'd say and and why? Yeah, why that script?

Vito: 37:39

Why that writer? It's even dominating this episode now I know this is poor Barbenheimer. Clouse Barbenheimer.

Armando: 37:46

Clouse Barbenheimer. So I can't stop calling the Barbie movie the Clouse Barbie movie because I just think it's hilarious, that's a great name. A bunch of if a bunch of little girls that thought they were there to see the Barbie movie and it ended up being a documentary about the butcher of Leon Clouse Clouse Barbie, who was a Nazi, you know. He was a Nazi, sold like a commander, you know, and he slaughtered a lot of people in the Holocaust, but his name was Clouse Barbie and his be.

Armando: 38:17

But his memory will live on for a while. We will live on because I just think that was hilarious If a bunch of girls come out and they're like did you know that Clouse Barbie killed a lot of it, you know for the Barbie movie.

Vito: 38:29

Yeah, I think I'll wait on Barbie. I mean, I'm glad that people are going to the movies.

Armando: 38:33

That's an HBO Max.

Vito: 38:34

Yeah, it is, but I'm glad you're right.

Armando: 38:37

I'm glad little girls and non-marvel, non-marvel summer.

Vito: 38:41

So far, you know what I love, though.

Armando: 38:43

I love all the back. I guess maybe this episode can be like a barbenheimer move out to both of them, but I love all the backlash. I love all the backlash on Barbie. They're calling it a woke Trojan horse.

Vito: 38:56

Oh, that's great.

Armando: 38:57

Inductrinate your little girls and going to turn your little boys Trent like I love all of the pro clutching from the. They're just like complaining about the Barbie movie as as like woke propaganda and they go. Oh my God. But I saw it three times with my sister and my girls. I'm like you know you're like OK, but anyway.

Vito: 39:17

So yeah, I mean you could probably say something about there was definitely a communist message in Oppenheimer, like I mean they were certainly because it wasn't, he never really was one, so they could have breezed over that pretty easily. But the fact that they kind of stayed like that was like a pretty big focus. Not and of course that's what gave Florence, you know a character in the movie was because of the whole communist time.

Armando: 39:40

Yes, that was, that was her role, that was the. Her character's role in in Oppenheimer's story arc was to serve to sort of like muddy him, you know, to sort of soil him.

Vito: 39:52

Yeah.

Armando: 39:52

Taint him and give Robert Downey Jr's character a whole reason, a whole litany of of examples of him being a communist. And then they basically took down Oppenheimer and vilified him because he you know, that's the story. If you know who Oppenheimer is, then you probably know that. You know he was vilified. Eventually His security clearances were taken away, mostly because he ended up having like a personal moral opposition to the work that he had done, basically. And then the next steps with the hydrogen bombing, I think, is what is basically what he took issue with, right, I think you know, so I believe, so I believe, that's what they're telling me it's not like you know to the number staff he was trying to do his character is trying to get.

Armando: 40:39

This isn't a history podcast. This isn't an accurate history podcast. I'm the last person that would be teaching history out there, exactly so yeah, and then Gary Oldman comes along as Truman, and again you know, yeah, that was supposed to you know that was kind of funny, though, like he was.

Vito: 40:55

You know I thought that was a good point. You know that he, brought up like this, doesn't give anything away. But the whole thing is he meets Truman. He's trying to like bleed his soul out to him and Truman's like no one cares about you. I'm the one who dropped the bomb, not you. You know I did and he's like you know, get this pussy out of my office. I know he's walking away.

Armando: 41:16

He puts him in perspective and he really, you know, puts him back in his place, in, in a way. That's kind of like okay, well, I guess we don't have a movie. If that's the case, you know, like why is a movie not called Truman? Then you know yeah right, but yeah, it was interesting, it was very well.

Vito: 41:33

I think the HBO movie Truman. I think it was Gary Sinise. Yeah, gary Sinise.

Armando: 41:37

Yeah, Gary Sinise.

Vito: 41:39

Good old Gary, good old Gary.

Armando: 41:41

Yeah, no, I saw that one. It was pretty good, you know yeah, for an old HBO movie. It wasn't bad yeah it was good. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. What else do you think people should know about?

Vito: 41:51

Well, the one interesting part in the movie is when they're like hopefully the movie was more the crowd we were watching with. It was the part when they were like who was the? Who was the one sender or whatever that was that was asking those questions or making? And then they're like John F Kennedy is his name, sir, and then that one person started clapping in the theater.

Armando: 42:13

One person applauded briefly. It's like, oh my god, really. Oh, because you were there. Right, I'm sure you were there. I was there. I'm sure you were there, madam, I'm sure you voted for Kennedy. Yeah, no, you know, I think, see it in, see it while you can in the theater, because I think it's definitely sound more than visuals too.

Armando: 42:33

That fucking sound is rumbling, I think if you can see it in the theater, do, because it's worth it. I don't think it'll be as as impactful at home on streaming, and even you know again, to go back to the example of Klaus Barbie, that one, I think, is going to be fine, just fine on streaming, in other words. Yeah, but Barbenheimer is going to need your full sit down, attention, and you're going to need to like have your seat rattled a bit.

Vito: 43:01

Would have been nice to see the actual film print of that though.

Armando: 43:04

That would have been cool if they had. That's why I'm like wait, no CGI. You're sure you didn't use CGI for that, that explosion, you know.

Vito: 43:11

But you can just tell it just from the lack of what we saw. It was all real. I, like I said and they put so much work behind the sound in this just it also to those little explosions how they're a little second delay before we feel it and I like that. Great yeah.

Armando: 43:27

I like that. Yeah, sound that will be an Oscar, for sure.

Vito: 43:30

Sound design.

Armando: 43:31

It should definitely. Well, you know, I think this early on. I like to say it should definitely be nominated, you know, because we don't know what else is coming out yet, you know.

Vito: 43:38

I mean, it's a great movie, it's certainly great. I just I felt a little bit let down because I guess, just the test itself, even if we didn't get to see you know the, you know the bomb in war or whatever, or being dropped, I still think, you know, I still wish the test shot would have been a little bit more, even if we only saw from a distance, you know, at least give us what that scope was, I don't know.

Armando: 44:04

I wish they would have tiny bit let down there. Yeah, maybe it's insensitive, but I wish they would have incorporated it a little bit or like kind of CGI doctored up the real bombings, because I know there's video footage of the real bombs going off. I'm not Well.

Vito: 44:21

I used to. I always want. I love those like Smithsonian documentaries about you know the bomb.

Vito: 44:26

So I guess only when they dropped it only one of the cameras was working and it was at the end. So when they dropped the very first bomb, the Noligay plane, there's only that one shot, from a little bit of a distance, of it going off. So I thought like even if Christopher Nolan showed everything from the bomb being dropped until I could see, not showing the impact would be cutting before the impact. If I don't, I just thought they should have showed the plane and the delivery. And you know that that was, that was. That was a lot. But again, I get it, it's about Oppenheimer, it's his story.

Armando: 44:59

But it was a big part of the story, I think the Noligay and that I forget that.

Vito: 45:04

I agree His name.

Armando: 45:05

You know that was the name of the pilot's mother.

Vito: 45:08

Pops mom. Yeah, that's right, that's right.

Armando: 45:10

And I forget the pilot's name now, but I know his story was a big part of dropping the bomb and you know I think it was an, I'll say interesting, and I mean that in those shady loaded way I'm saying it. I think it's an interesting choice. The way that he structured it, the story and the way and what he shows to focus on in particular the Robert Downey Jr character towards the end I thought made for again interesting, coda, you know, like an interesting.

Vito: 45:41

yeah right, it was good that it was. Was it necessary? I don't know.

Armando: 45:46

Yeah, I don't think it was as good as Paul Schrader said it was. Did you see what Paul Schrader said?

Vito: 45:50

No, no, I don't.

Armando: 45:51

Schrader, this motherfucker said oh, this movie is the most important. This move. This dude fool just like came all over himself trying to praise this movie. This is the best movie of the millennium. It needs to be seen, right every. He was just going on and on about her.

Vito: 46:07

He just oh, Jesus Okay.

Armando: 46:09

I watched, you know, we watched it. Like I said, Paul, I'm well. If you hear this, paul, I was well, okay.

Vito: 46:15

Yeah, I mean shit. I like first reformed. I think that Paul Schrader did better than this. I don't know, I was good, yeah, yeah.

Armando: 46:22

Give me American jiggaloo Damn it. Give me some Richard gear. Give me some Richard gear and a Blondie soundtrack Call it a day. Thank you, Paul Schrader.

Vito: 46:33

Oh man, yeah, I don't know.

Armando: 46:35

I don't know, it was all right, you know, I think, but yeah, I could watch it again.

Vito: 46:39

I can definitely watch it again at home.

Armando: 46:41

I could watch it again at home. I don't know if I need to see it again in theater. That was good.

Vito: 46:44

But I mean, I felt like I got it right. I don't think I need to go bright.

Armando: 46:49

Yeah, I think that he spent a little too much time providing cameo moments for lots of different characters. That I just, yeah. Again, going back to that, I just think that for me, the cameos didn't do what they should have done, which is bring you more into the story. Instead, it was like okay, count the cameos you know. At a certain point it was like count the people who have now been in this movie for only five minutes and have never come and haven't come back yet.

Armando: 47:18

I know and who you like know exactly who they are because they're like other big names.

Vito: 47:23

He should have just gotten more you know character actors, especially given you know and I like seeing character actors more than I like seeing big stars in these small spots with the strike looming.

Armando: 47:35

I know the strike wasn't happening. When you film this, you know. But when you think about it it's like why don't you give the lesser known character actors the jobs of carrying these roles, you know? And that way, like, in other words, you're wasting. If you're only going to put, if you're going to only have an actor for seven minutes in the film, a total of seven minutes, you may as well give that to. You know a really good character actor that needs it, that could use the work much better than you know somebody who's already won an acting Oscar. This is a national emergency, didn't need a charge.

Armando: 48:18

I'm not going to give up Bring the race against the Nazis, and I know what it means if the Nazis have a bomb?

Vito: 48:41

We have a 12 month head start 18. How could you possibly know that We've got?

Armando: 48:46

one hope All America's industrial might and scientific innovation connected here. Secret laboratory Keep everyone there until it's done.

Vito: 49:01

Let's go recruit some scientists.

Armando: 49:06

Build a town, build it fast. If you don't let scientists bring their families, we'll never get the best.

Vito: 49:13

Why would we go to the middle of nowhere For who knows how long?

Armando: 49:20

Why, why, how about? Because this is the most important thing to ever happen in the history of the world. You're the great improviser, but this you can't do?

Vito: 49:32

in your head, are we saying there's a chance that when we push that button, we destroy the world.

Armando: 49:41

Chances are near zero, near zero. What do you want? From theory alone, zero would be nice. This is a matter of life and death. I can perform this miracle.

Vito: 50:01

World War II would be over, our boys would come home.

Armando: 50:07

That's happening, isn't it? The world will remember this day. Our work here will ensure a peace mankind has never seen, until somebody builds a bigger world.

Vito: 50:34

You are the men who gave them the power to destroy themselves, and the world is not prepared. The world is not prepared. 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.