Ep. 44 Fellini's 8 1/2

Join me today with writer/director Mark Bessenger as we discuss Federico Fellini's masterpiece.

Can you imagine watching a classic film, only to discover a crucial scene has been cut? That's what happened to me while streaming The French Connection on Criterion. This alteration of the director's vision left us feeling disappointed and prompted us to delve into the importance of preserving classic films and their symbolism. Join us as we debate the impact of such changes and reminisce about the unadulterated experience of watching Fellini's 8 1/2 at the New Beverly Cinema.

Fellini's honest portrayal of his life in 8 1/2 captivated us, and we couldn't help but compare it to François Truffaut's Day for Night in terms of how both films reflect a filmmaker's day-to-day experience. Furthermore, we discuss how directors often draw from their personal experiences, childhood memories, and relationships to create their masterpieces. Listen in as we explore the challenges of working with actors and the unique ways filmmakers tap into their creativity.

Finally, we celebrate the artistry of Federico Fellini, with a deep dive into his body of work, including La Dolce Vita and Amarcord. We explore his iconic style, the captivating logos that accompany his films, and ponder which of his masterpieces he might consider his favorite. By the end of this episode, you'll not only have a newfound appreciation for Fellini's genius but also a strong conviction in preserving the integrity of classic films.

Chapters

• 0:04 Film Editing and Directing Techniques
• 8:27 Film Process in Two Movies
• 21:47 A Discussion on Fellini Films
• 34:15 Planning a Film Festival

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Intro.

Vito: 1:20

Oh man, i got disappointed today. I was going to tell you, speaking of criterion, talking about eight and a half and the Fellini box set and all that I was on criterion earlier and I put on French connection. Have you ever seen the French connection? Just click, okay There, and I had a more background as I was doing something and I noticed a scene kind of I thought that what happened didn't happen. I was like wait a minute. So I rewound it and watched it again and there was a scene cut out. I looked up online and everyone was saying criterion literally edited the scene out of the movie And I was like what the fuck criterion is supposed to be? the group that preserves, like?

Vito: 2:00

the natural, for you know the movie And I was shocked.

Vito: 2:03

Now it was something that was obviously maybe, you know a little racist, but it was the character that Gene Hacken was playing that was kind of important to that character. It wasn't like it was there trying to be bad. But the fact that criterion just kind of pulled a Disney plus like that and just edited a movie, i was like I'm fucking done, i'm so done. And I was sad because I'm like talking about Fellini and all these great movies, i'm like I don't know what the fuck I'm watching anymore. I don't know if I'm watching an actual, you know the original movie. You don't know anymore with these streaming platforms.

Mark: 2:33

Did it have anything? did it say anything at the beginning?

Vito: 2:36

like this film's been altered for modern sensibilities, I did not see that, No, And in fact it wasn't even cut right too. It was like Roy Scheider's characters walk in and then instantly it cuts to him and Gene Hacken talking about going to a bar, like the cut didn't even look like you could tell if something was removed from the movie, And that's why I thought like I was just hired or something I didn't notice. So I went back and I was like, am I missing this? You know? and I was like I was just shocked. I canceled my criterion subscription.

Mark: 3:03

I would too. That that's terrible. I mean you're absolutely right, they're supposed to be the home video purist archivist. For them to edit a movie That's not good. I mean yeah, i mean you know, you know you're not going to be offensive in there. You know, hey, it's part of the movie. You can't cut it because you find it offensive or you're afraid someone else might find it. Right, but any disclaimer you want, you know, but leave the movie alone Yeah exactly Put a disclaimer on the beginning of the film.

Mark: 3:30

You know, at least show that you're, you're acknowledged, you're taking some responsibility for it. But to cut it, no, that's bad. You're not giving the audience, especially someone seeing it for the first time, You're not giving them the whole director vision.

Vito: 3:44

Yeah, it's a bummer, but you know we must move on, i suppose. But it was definitely an awful thing to wake up to you know, classic, like French connection.

Mark: 3:55

I mean, i've never seen it, but I know it's a classic.

Vito: 3:57

I know, i know The good news is, you know the the Fellini box set, i think I think, cause I used to have him from VHS, a couple of them, and I think everything is is preserved properly. And you, i and Vince, because he monitored the other night went to the new Beverly and watched a print of eight and a half Fellini's eight and a half And you guys liked it a lot.

Mark: 4:19

Yes, It was. it was. I've never seen it before and it was just remarkable, I agree.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Yeah, i mean, it's one of those great movies, everything everything about it.

Mark: 4:29

There was some, there were some slow parts and like we, and there were some parts of it where I just didn't get the symbolism. But I think it's one of those movies where people say you need to watch it repeatedly and the more you watch it, the more you'll get it. So, like I said, this was my first time but from what I got and I understood yeah, I dug it, Oh yeah.

Vito: 4:52

I always thought it was probably the best, just like the mental world a movie director goes through, and I just I just loved the way he did it. It was just this kind of, you know, childlike fantasy world. You know that he said and that's really. He does that so well. And, yeah, i was just really glad we got to watch it, because every time you talk about certain foreign directors, but especially Fellini, he's just, he has such a certain style to him. You either love it and like addicted to it or it's just, you know, it's just not your style.

Mark: 5:19

Well, like we talked about too and you know I might be saying this a lot during this episode, but it was interesting that the crowd who came to see it too I mean it's not like people coming to see Xanadu or a Friday the 13th sequel where they're all wearing T-shirts with, you know, x-rotation movies on the front, all this mess up, everybody there was. they were kind of dressed nicely and it was more of an upscale audience.

Mark: 5:46

you know, because it was. It's a upscale film And yeah, you're absolutely right, i mean speaking as from as filmmaker to filmmaker. This movie is the perfect example of what we go through, especially when we've got deadlines, especially when we know that there's all this pressure on us to create and you don't know what you could do. You have your, you've got a block, you've got like filmmaking block or screenwriters block or whatever, and you just don't know what to do And you don't want to lose the project. So you keep saying, you keep telling the right people that you, yeah, it's coming, i know what's, i just need to write it, or I just need to do the storyboards, or you know, and you still and you really have no idea what the thing's going to be about, but you don't, you still don't want to lose the project.

Mark: 6:38

Yeah, yeah, and, like with the Marcello Masturioni and his director character, you're, at the same time, you're trying to pull things from your past that you can use for this, for a project, but at the same time, these things are also helping to block you from creating something. I mean, in the film he's like he's pulling things from his past. All these other memories are coming. I mean, you know he's got this, this relationship that he's in now with his wife and his mistress, and it's a thorn in his side, it's preventing him from doing what he needs to do. He's being chased by crowds of people who are like need answers to questions. He's, you know, and he's and he's. These traumatic things that happened to him in the past or these issues that happened to him they're popping up And so, yeah, i mean that's just, it's not. It's not only just. I would go even so far to say it's not just something that plagues us as filmmakers, but it plagues anyone who's trying to be creative but feel like you're being stunted by outside or internal blocks, roadblocks.

Vito: 7:44

Right and you're really getting it from his point of view too. This is definitely a Fellini movie, a Fellini problem. Like you know, he calls it eight and a half because he's done a few. You know, i think he did six movies and a few shorts and everything added up together to him was eight and a half And it's solely about him. Even Like we talked about him having a mistress in it and played by Sandra Milo, who they had to think in real life for a while, and his wife, julieta Messina, who's done a lot of movies with her husband Fellini, and so it's not like she's just some at-home housewife, this is like a collaborator of his. So she's watching the movie, obviously, and seeing their life on screen, seeing his mistress and him just so open to talk about it, like that is insane. I don't think there's ever been a director in the history of like at least mainstream filmmaking that we've ever seen that honest about their life. You never see everything, but he put everything in there.

Mark: 8:39

Yeah, he sure did, and he was a very brave man for doing it. But if anybody complained, all he has to do is say look, it's a masterpiece. I put you in a classic forever, you know So.

Vito: 8:52

True. True, i mean you can't complain once it was out. but I'm sure his wife was like you, motherfucker, you know. I mean like that's not something. But she knew it was coming, she knew who, what kind of person he was as far as to like you know what type of artist he is, you know you had to put everything out there in their movies. So that's what you get for marrying someone like that.

Vito: 9:10

But we talked about how great of a movie this is about making movies, and most of the time you see movies about the filmmaking process. They're making fun of bad filmmaking, whether it be Ed Wood or Bo Finger or something along those lines. It's like these inept filmmakers and you make a little comedy out of it. This is about a great filmmakers, you know making a movie And the only other movie I've ever seen that kind of gave me gives me the same thing like we were talking about was, in a very practical way, day for Night. Francois Truffaut's Day for Night also has that movie making experience down perfectly to me. But it's just two opposite ends, where eight and a half is just like this mental warfare you're going through And Day for Night is just the day-to-day activities of making a movie.

Mark: 9:50

What parts of Day for Night as a filmmaker, what parts of Day for Night really rang true for you that reflected your own experiences?

Vito: 10:01

Okay, so Francois Truffaut I love. Okay, so he does throughout the movie. Have you seen it before I have?

Mark: 10:06

not seen Day for Night.

Vito: 10:07

Okay, so you know, it's obviously a filmmaker with a budget, so there's a lot of things I don't know about it. Okay, you know it's like you know he's making a decent size movie. But what I love about it is when he's done filmmaking for the day, he has these collection of books he ordered. He's just looking through for inspiration from Hitchcock and all his favorite filmmakers. The dreams he has at night when he's laying in bed, just like you would go through when you're making a feature like that, just that day-to-day mentality. But it never gets out of control. Nothing really within his moviemaking experience in that movie ever gets. You know, anything ever goes haywire, but just that day-to-day, especially at night, like I said, when he's laying there at night having those dreams.

Vito: 10:49

And there's something about a film director. It's done an eight and a half and done in Day for Night is you always and I'm sure we can talk about this, it's just you always. When you're thinking and all these thoughts are going through your mind, you always go back to being a child. You think of these things that happened to you when you were a little kid. There's always these little kid moments. My favorite part in eight and a half is the Asa Nisi Vasa part. You know, when he goes back to being a little kid doing the talking part, thinking the treasure. I love that part because just that little moment of his life that happened at one night stayed with him forever and that happens to us all the time. So whenever you're diving into the moviemaking process, always those little thoughts at least with me. I can say what I'm playing at night and they pop in your mind all the time. And Day for Night did that a lot and I love that. But that's what eight and a half did as well.

Mark: 11:37

Okay, that's cool, i get it. yeah, and you're absolutely right, you pull from the things that you remember throughout your life. most noblies are childs. I think that when you're, the experiences you have as a child I think are the ones that are the most pure and the most raw and I think for that reason they tend to stick with you and it's easier to remember them, because they are a lot of them, are life changing or play a large part in who you become. So when you're looking for something to put into a film, it's easy to pull from childhood experiences. So, yeah, he really nailed that in the film, in that scene too.

Vito: 12:15

Right. I mean, was there any other? were there any scenes in it for you watching it for the first time? was there anything that stood out to you watching it? You're like, oh man, yeah, that's great, as you were watching it.

Mark: 12:27

As a filmmaker, just a lot of the stuff that you know. When I think it was that actress toward the end who showed up on set and she's like oh, what's my character, what's my part about, what's it like?

Vito: 12:41

Claudia Cardinale. Yes.

Mark: 12:43

And he has no clue. I mean, there's not even a script, you know, he's just like trying to keep her at bay, you know, but yet keep her interested. And that kind of rang true to me because, as I'm sure, with you you get people, actors, friends, who are always like, hey, you know, can I be in a movie, can you put me in your next film, or what have I done, and it's really like that. And that again, like we said, that, the scene where he's walking through the set and he's just being followed by a crowd of people who are just hammering him with questions everybody has a question they need answered to do their job And he's trying to focus on something that he can't, because someone's asking him, like you know, about how many days of production is going to be, or where's the script, or, you know, do we need to? what color is this dress? Do we need the dress to be? You know, it's just right, it's just that part.

Mark: 13:41

That part really got to me because I've been in a lot of situations like that where I'm like, well, let me just give me a minute, let me just think, no, we need dancers now. Ba, ba, ba, ba ba. So right, as a filmmaker, that really. That really rang true for me as a person or as an as an audience member. I think one of the scenes that really that really got to me, though, was the scene where the boys go to that curvy woman's house. They pay her money to dance for them. I'm sorry, i can't remember all these.

Mark: 14:15

Italian names, but they have her dance for them And it's just like this group of boys and she's not, she's not stripping, she's not flashing any parts of her body, she's just doing this kind of bump and grind provocative dance for these little boys And they're just absolutely loving it because this is their kind of foray into the world of sex and how and being attracted to women And I just thought that was really amazing. And we can talk more about connections between this film and some of Woody Allen's works.

Mark: 14:48

But it kind of made me think of it, kind of made me think of that scene in I believe it was radio days where the boys, these school boys, are on a rooftop or something and they have a telescope or binoculars and they're looking around and they see this woman in her apartment and she's dancing, just dancing topless, and they just they're just fascinated by this. You know, and I think it's kind of the same thing. It's just like these boys' sexual awakening, so to speak, and that just stuck with me. I just thought, oh, how wonderfully to them it's this big deal. But to us as adults you know who've seen and done you know a dozen times something more It's just like, oh, that's kind of, you know. To us it's like, oh, that's cute. To them it's like the world, you know, it's like a door opening to another part of the world for them And I just I love that scene. And then later on, when he fantasizes, he has that dream about all the women he's known in his life And she's in there.

Mark: 15:47

She's in there with all the others And I thought, oh, that's great. You know, it just shows that he's never, he's never forgotten her, i mean, and I thought that was wonderful too.

Vito: 15:56

And it's interesting too. It's like, whenever you think of, like, a man being superficial about what they find attractive, it's like you really don't know. I mean, this was a guy who has influenced his whole life by women and he was attracted to all types. You know, and I love that, i love that. When we left the theater, do you remember what you said? One of the first things you said was you're like yeah, man, that was Stardust Memories, you know, like Woody.

Vito: 16:17

Allen just stole that movie completely And he admits it to his credit. He admits it, but it is, it's totally Oh yeah, it totally was When I was watching it.

Mark: 16:25

I've seen Stardust Memories like a few times And when I'm watching 8.5 for the first time I'm like, oh, there's a story bead for story bead. It's just like you know, and even some of the women in 8.5 looked like some of the they're matching counterpoints in Stardust Memories. But yeah, it's the same thing. You know, woody Allen's a filmmaker who's questioning his new project and what he's been doing with his career and his life and being influenced by all these women. It's just, it really is a remake. It is.

Vito: 16:59

It is. Yeah, there's a lot of Woody Allen which just remakes of like Bergman and Fellini over and over again, And he's still kind of like you know, did it up recently. It's like I said.

Mark: 17:08

You know his film. Love and Death is Bergman and Stardust Memories is Fellini. I always felt that you can see touches in other of his films too, like when we, after the movie, we watched that scene from What's New Pussycat.

Vito: 17:23

Yeah, i was asking about that again. What movie was that again, what's?

Mark: 17:26

New Pussycat.

Vito: 17:27

Okay, there was a scene that was almost recreated from the 8.5 whipping scene.

Mark: 17:30

Yeah, he parodies that scene. He didn't direct it but he wrote it. And there's that scene with Peter O'Toole who's fighting about he's trying to focus on this one girl that he wants to marry, but all these other women in his life, past and present, keep coming in and distracting him. And then there's that parody where he he's got the black hat and the cloak and the whip and he's like it's just like, it's just taken right from that And made just a couple years after 8.5.

Vito: 18:02

So, like Woody Allen, was obviously influenced from him at the very beginning.

Mark: 18:05

Oh, yeah, you know and then there's that segment from everything you always wanted to know about sex, but we're afraid to ask. There's a segment he's it's done very Italian style I think they even speak Italian or gibberish Italian or something because there's like subtitles. It's subtitled with him and Louise Lasser And where he's like their husband and wife, but they've lost interest in sex and they find out. The only way they can they can stoke the fires is to like have sex in public. And Woody Allen's like always wearing dark glasses and he's got a jacket slung over his shoulders, very Marchello Marcherianis. So he obviously yeah, fellini is obviously a big influence in his life.

Vito: 18:48

So yeah and work Right, and we also talked before saw the movie. I was saying get ready for the music, because if you've never heard it before, first off, i said, vince, we got kind of mad at you when I said it, but I thought Nino Rota, who did the music, i feel is I'll double down on this Not only do I feel he's the greatest Italian composer, i think he's the greatest composer ever And he's mostly known in America because of the Godfather But if you go back and look at his Italian music I mean, danny Elfman really obviously is heavily influenced by him And, like I was talking about, it feels like there's a lot of Peewee's big adventure.

Mark: 19:23

You know, in this like yeah, i forget what scene it was, but something's happening And also this music starts playing and I'm like That's Pee Wee's big adventure.

Vito: 19:35

Oh, and the horse carriage rolls up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark: 19:37

Yeah, i was like, oh my God, and I remember what you said about how about Danny Elfman did some music that sounded like that. I'm like, yeah, absolutely, that's. It's really. It was really clear.

Vito: 19:47

I mean, it was very similar to music from Pee Wee, so yeah, But yeah, you see him, he gets, he gets like, even if you look at his like filmography.

Vito: 19:57

He died in the 70s but he's like, he's credited in like so much stuff because his music is just always ripped off And he just you know, he's just not as well known as like a Morricone or which I love any Morricone, but I just I feel like Nino Rota's music is is so much more lively And it's it's I don't know There's something about. I can listen to his, his soundtracks and his music constantly.

Mark: 20:18

Yeah, i thought there's some other pieces of music I heard in that that I had heard elsewhere, like the music at the end when everyone's joined hands and dancing in a circle. We get that that same theme again. But I feel like I've heard that in something else, maybe a commercial, i don't know. Probably Yeah, it was something, but I definitely heard before. But yeah, that was good.

Vito: 20:38

Now that ending is kind of interesting because it's this little circus type ending where they're all, everyone comes together And what first he calls off the movie, the movie's over And like there's like this big, almost circus type thing where all the characters of his life come together and they're in a circle going around And it's a very you know it's a great ending and and a lot of things behind it, but that was not the original ending that they filmed. I forgot to talk about this before we watch the movie. Yeah, not, you can't watch it because I think it's destroyed.

Vito: 21:07

But the original ending actually was more downbeat because this ending is almost kind of happy, like you know it's. You know he's a guy who finally finds the creative tick that keeps him going, which is the madness of his life, that keeps him going, and his wife joins him again And they're in that circle of life or whatever, and it's a solid ending. But the original ending was him and his wife on a train And they're not speaking, they're kind of like looking each other on a train. But like Marcello looks up, guido looks up and sees all the characters from the movie looking at him And it's just kind of like more of like a darker type ending And they cut it And supposedly the footage got destroyed. I'm not sure, but you can't watch it anywhere. But that was the original ending.

Mark: 21:47

That's interesting because if you remember Stardust Memories, that movie opens with Woody Allen on a train.

Vito: 21:53

Oh shit, i didn't remember, you're right. Yeah, yeah, You're right about that, not talking, he looks around, he sees.

Mark: 21:58

I don't know if there's anybody from who he knows on there, because I was wanting to say I thought that maybe Lorraine Newman, who's a character who appears later on I thought she might have been on the train.

Vito: 22:07

Oh wait, i'll say it again.

Mark: 22:09

It's interesting that you said that, because, yeah, that's that's how. That's how Stardust Memories opens with the Allen on a train.

Vito: 22:14

Oh man, That's awesome. Yeah, I got to go back and check that. That's really cool.

Mark: 22:19

Yeah, it's. Yeah, I love that there was recurring circus theme. And God, sometimes filmmaking is like being in a circus.

Vito: 22:27

And that's what Felineys always said. You know, some directors say it's a war zone, but it's a circus, it's a circus.

Mark: 22:33

It's. To anyone who's not a filmmaker, never been on a film shoot, it's, it's a. Sometimes it's a circus, sometimes it's a war zone, sometimes it's an insane asylum, sometimes it's a boxing match, but to him the circus, the circus motif was, was apt. Yeah, i thought, and the joy. Now, it's interesting that you said that he found his creative tick and that's why he's happy.

Mark: 22:55

I interpret it when I saw it, when the film, when he said the films can't, because they built that big structure, he, you know, he doesn't they for the film, he didn't know what it was going to use it for. But they built the big structure and he goes, oh, the film's done. And they immediately start tearing it down. But he seemed and this has happened to me before, i've been, you know, involved in some projects and I'm just like, oh God. And then they get canceled And I'm like, oh, yay, we're not, we're not doing it. Like when he's like, oh, the project's done, he, he immediately seemed happier. He like he doesn't have to worry about anymore, it's a, it's a load off. And so I was like, hey, everybody, yeah, the project's done. Now Let's, so, let's dance, let's, let's dance and be happy.

Vito: 23:34

Because all that's interesting.

Mark: 23:35

And that's how I interpret it when I saw it.

Vito: 23:38

Oh, that's cool. I always took it the other way around, like he found them himself. He found the creative gene again And what I thought, the set. Well, in real life, right before eight and a half, fellini was supposed to make a sci-fi movie that they got the rights to a book and then they were, they were going to remake. You know, they were going to do like a big sci-fi movie and sets were built just like in eight and a half, and almost the same thing happened. He didn't know what the movie could be about. So the movie ending, they tore down the sets and all that kind of stuff. So I didn't know in eight and a half if that was just a little bit of another joke on himself doing another sci-fi movie, because that's what, that's what Guido and Selmy was making, the character He was doing a sci-fi movie, that's what they were making And I thought that was just like a joke on him.

Mark: 24:21

A Fellini sci-fi movie. I wonder what that would have been like.

Vito: 24:25

Well, he also was supposed to do one that was literally the TV show Lost and the being, where it was like about a plane wreck and you and everyone got off, but in the end they were all dead, it was all ghosts. But he never ended up making that. I read his, his biography, his autobiography, called I Fellini, and he talks about all the ideas he wanted to make And he kind of liked horror movies and stuff, but he never got to make a proper one. And I, when I was reading that plane crash idea I read that years ago, before Lost even came out, and I was like, oh, this would be a great movie, you know, yeah, What is it about?

Mark: 24:56

What is it about Fellini that you like so much?

Vito: 24:59

So when I first started, like you know, just watching movies or whatever when I first left America movies, you know, and I was in my early 20s, the very first movie I ever worked on in my life The director was older than me and he's this Colombian guy and he was like and I was always a little bit wacky of a person or whatever And he was like, have you ever seen Fellini? He's like I think you would like this guy And I was like, oh no, i didn't even know, i didn't know anything about it. And so I remember I went and I rented eight and a half And I don't even know how I found it in a video store, but I rented eight and a half And I watched it and I just instantly, it just clicked And I love. I love when people can film surrealism. It just being in my young 20s, in my early 20s, it still got me But like the flashbacks, as a young kid I always loved that.

Vito: 25:45

I always just loved how, how honest he was from the very beginning, and that was the first movie I've seen of his was eight and a half. Then I kind of went backwards solid Dolce Vida and Listerada and in these other movies that he did that almost have that same style and feel. But eight and a half was the first And I'll just, i'll never forget the first time I watched that movie I was just hooked. I was hooked for a lot of reasons. I knew as a director the goal was to find the actor that could be your alter ego. I think when you can get there, then all of a sudden somebody's talking to you for you in your movie. Like there is just so many little tropes that like just I just resonated with me when I first saw it and still are with me. Okay.

Mark: 26:25

Now, this is the. This is the first Fellini film I've seen. Are the others kind of similar to that thematically? So they just use a lot of symbolism and surrealism, and in all of them, yes and no.

Vito: 26:39

Yes, I would say yes. Now a few important ones to see, because obviously, if you don't want to watch every single movie he made, but a few like key movies for Fellini, if you liked eight and a half and you're like I want to see a few other of his movies, So all of them. I guess the intellectuals at like Fellini. Lestrada is usually everyone's favorite. It was the first movie to win. It was the first foreign language Oscar winner. Fellini won, I think, two Oscars, eight and a half and Lestrada. And Lestrada is Anthony Quinn and his wife, Giulietta Messina. They're basically like a road carny act, doing stuff, just traveling around Italy. It's just about the dynamic between these two.

Vito: 27:18

Besides that, then you I would say, you know he's done a lot of like little weird nights at Cabiria. It's kind of like very circusy, But I would say La Dolce Vida would be the next one I'd watch. It has that literally, like I told you, like it's the beginning of paparazzi. You know, It's very interesting how they do this movie And I think that's very close to eight and a half, theme wise, And if you like all those movies, eight and a half was his last black and white movie. So if you like. If you like those other ones that are all black and white. After that there's a movie he did called Roma, Roma, another one called Omicord. That was all. It's like the surreal color version of Italy. I think you would like a movie called the Satiracon. That was like more about the Roman Empire, told from Fellini's point of view, which is just fucking Madhouse.

Vito: 28:03

Yeah there's just tons of just fantastic movies he's made, but yeah, they're all. They all have a little bit like that's how you get that Fellini-esque you know term Like it's very, you know people looking to the camera and saying something just very surreal. It's always been surreal. Even even his normal movies have it.

Mark: 28:20

Is eight and a half, your favorite favorite Fellini film.

Vito: 28:23

I don't know, i think it's definitely the one that hits hard. La Dolce Vida is amazing, though There's something about that one when you're watching it, like I, just character-wise, i just I don't know. He has like this weird relationship with his dad and it's always a fucked up like version of a wife and a mistress. He always has it Fellini always does that And I sort of. About La Dolce Vida, i really I think that's probably the best one, even though eight and a half, like I said, there's just so much that as a filmmaker, kind of like you know, weighs on you.

Mark: 28:59

I know that Marcello Masturiani was in a lot of his movies, was he? did he star in all of them, or just the majority, no, just the majority.

Vito: 29:08

It's funny. It was either his wife, julieta Messina, or Marcello who starred in all of most of most of that, all of them, but most of his movies. And if you remember the trailers, before eight and a half there was that one called Fred and Ginger And that actually was Marcello Masturiani and Julieta Messina starring together in one. So yeah, it seems like they go back and forth or whatever. But, like you know, another real famous sequence would be that opening too. I don't know if you noticed that, but like that opening has been redone so many times about that claustrophobic and sitting in traffic, having to get out of the car and it kind of floats away. That you know. Obviously that's like his nightmare to begin the movie. But that whole sequence has been done like how many times now, almost, like you know, death playing chess with death in seven and seven seal. You know it's just been done a lot, yeah.

Mark: 29:56

The scene I remember that I really liked toward the beginning of the movie is the scene in this, in the springs, the health springs, where they're serving mineral water to everybody and the cameras just just dolling along. Sometimes it's following Mars Marsiglione and sometimes it's not, but he, how he uses just placement of people in the shot to create this depth in the film itself. You get these, you get these women sometimes who are like in a head and shoulders close up on one side of the screen and the other side of screen there's like a woman way, way back in in an extreme, you know, an extreme wide shot kind of thing. Yeah, and what I really like about that it was very other than the fact that it was very dreamy and languid and atmospheric, but what I really liked about it was that he, he gave each one of these people some bit of business.

Vito: 30:53

Yeah, It's like.

Mark: 30:54

I can't rate, i can't write a whole thing to expand your character, but I'm going to give you one little bitty thing to do to tell everybody who you are, even though we're probably never going to see you again. but it makes them more than just like window dressing. you know, i thought that was great Yeah.

Vito: 31:13

And his biography talks about that. He says that he tries to know everybody's name. So when there's a group of people and there's like 20 actors but you're only focusing on three or four, he'll just yell out to somebody and you know, say hey, start juggling or do something. You know he'll just know and he'll just yell your name and tell you to do something. And that's kind of how that started. You know, having people, everybody doing something kind of strange. But I love that too. That's great, you pointed that out.

Mark: 31:38

Yeah, and the whorehouse scene again, like with all the women he's known his life being there. And then there's that one that he said oh no, you have, it's time for you to go upstairs, you have to go upstairs. Now I said, well, i don't want to go upstairs. It's like you know you have to go upstairs, it's just like okay, so is that him? He's putting her up there because it's that's supposed to represent. Like in his memory she's kind of fading. So because he's probably going, to be gone.

Vito: 32:06

So one thing about it is Phelene's outlook on women is very strange, like he has like this love, hate, fear thing going on. And if you notice, downstairs, there still was Saragina, there still was a couple of the older actresses that are in the movie. They're all still relevant in the downstairs. But you know, the one who was just, i think, a dancer he probably just saw her once, because you never really see her in the movie And I think she was replaced with that other girl who was dancing fast and he's like oh, who's that, you know? So, yeah, I think that was just like, yeah, basically how how he saw them in his life. That's what I thought too.

Vito: 32:41

And yeah that was good. And then the Claudia Cardinale character was his ideal perfect woman And that's why you know she would show up always gliding and just smiling and he was like just looking at her. That was his perfect woman, which, intel, actually was the beginning of a perfect movie too. So he couldn't get his hand around her or the movie, and that's I think I don't know, maybe I'm just reading into that one wrong, but that's when he told her the movie's off And then he kind of, you know, and then went from there, gotcha. I think I don't know I could be dead wrong about a lot of. That's the best part about Philly B. He really is like the most subjective filmmaker ever, like a David Lynch. You can read into it however you want And you're not wrong, you're not wrong.

Mark: 33:25

Well, again, it's just another one of those films where it's got like wonderful cinematography and the shot compositions, it's got great music, it's black and white which works really really well.

Mark: 33:37

Yeah, the acting is wonderful And some of the themes and things he touches on are just eye-blinkingly great, and so it's just yeah, i'm glad that I finally got to see it I mean, of course I've known about it forever but I guess in all my countless viewings of frogs and versus the smog monster and invasion to blood farmers, that just kind of keeps getting pushed further and further and further back Yep. So yeah, kudos to the new Beverly for scheduling it so that we could give us an excuse to go Super happy that he did that.

Vito: 34:15

And next time and I'm going to bring that box set, Let's dive into a couple of them. I'm going to see what you think about it. You know, I definitely would like to see Ladolci Vita.

Mark: 34:24

I'm curious about Satirakhan now. I remember when I was younger, i think maybe a college student I remember seeing the logo for the film Armour Cord and I was was was interested, just I just thought the logo was fascinating.

Vito: 34:40

So Armour Cord is a really good one too.

Mark: 34:42

Based on the logo.

Vito: 34:44

Yeah, it's great music too.

Mark: 34:45

It's a great movie Absolutely. Since you said, so many people think Lestrada is his favorite, i'm kind of like to see that one as well.

Vito: 34:52

So we got a little film festival coming up then That's for sure, yeah, absolutely.